From: Paul Mison Date: 11:32 on 22 Aug 2003 Subject: Mac OS X browser view source I love my Mac for editing web sites. I can easily view source in my favourite text editor, and steal or modify bits of HTML, CSS and Javascript. If I'm running Mac OS 9, that is. Mac OS X obviously has more (and better) browsers, except for the fact that none of them offer the choice of viewing source in an external editor. Safari pops up a crappy, small window with no choice of typeface and no syntax colouring. Camino pops open a new tab - even if you don't like tabs - which does have syntax colouring, but which also uses a horrible italic in some places. It also doesn't soft wrap. IE 5 used to offer external editor support on the Mac OS, but now it just dumps the file to the desktop without opening it in the editor. I'm not sure about the other browsers, but I hate them already enough as it is. This isn't a new rant, and thus there are workarounds using AppleScript: http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0103b.shtml#viewy2 http://www.webgraph.com/usability/applescripts/ Point is, though, that it's really unnatural to switch to the editor to view source; that's what the browser should do for you. You could bind a global key combo (if you buy shareware) or us the script menu (but then you have to mouse your way into it). Blurgh. I hate Mac OS X, and the way it's encouraged apps to remove features that used to mean I worked well.
From: Chris Nandor Date: 17:48 on 22 Aug 2003 Subject: Re: Mac OS X browser view source At 11:32 +0100 2003.08.22, Paul Mison wrote: >Mac OS X obviously has more (and better) browsers, except for the >fact that none of them offer the choice of viewing source in an >external editor. iCab allows using an arbitrary external editor, FWIW. But me hates this in the browsers too.
From: peter (Peter da Silva) Date: 17:31 on 23 Aug 2003 Subject: Re: Mac OS X browser view source > I love my Mac for editing web sites. I can easily view source in my > favourite text editor, and steal or modify bits of HTML, CSS and > Javascript. If I'm running Mac OS 9, that is. You've forgotten how to use cut-and-paste? The only browser I use that brings up an external editor, which 90% of the time is just another program to chew up memory, is Opera on Windows. I hate it. Why bring up an editor on a document that I can't modify, or save it to some worthless randomly-named file I can't keep track of. The "View Source" browser lets me do everything I need, without losing track of the fact that I *am* only looking at a snapshot and make changes to the wrong document. > Point is, though, that it's really unnatural to switch to the editor > to view source; That's what I think. I'm not editing, I'm browsing. If you want to open in an editor, use Mozilla. Select "File -> Edit Page" and it'll toss you into Composer which is one of the better HTML editors I've ever used. > I hate Mac OS X, and the way it's encouraged apps to remove features > that used to mean I worked well. Then stick with OS 9.
From: Paul Mison Date: 11:06 on 24 Aug 2003 Subject: Re: Mac OS X browser view source On 23/08/2003 at 11:31 -0500, Peter da Silva wrote: >> I love my Mac for editing web sites. I can easily view source in my >> favourite text editor, and steal or modify bits of HTML, CSS and >> Javascript. If I'm running Mac OS 9, that is. > >You've forgotten how to use cut-and-paste? Command E to view source in external editor. Command option V to view source, command A to select all, command C to copy, command tab until the editor is frontmost, command shift N for New Window with Selection (or command N, command V if you have an inferior editor, perhaps). Hmm, which of those is quicker and easier? Oh, and to bring up a purely pedantic, irrelevant point, given you like a read-only browser view source, surely that's *copy* and paste? >The only browser I use that brings up an external editor, which 90% of >the time is just another program to chew up memory, is Opera on >Windows. So just as I hate the browsers mentioned for not giving me an option to view in external editors, you should hate Opera for not giving you the option not to. Preferences are wonderful things, sometimes. >Why bring up an editor on a document that I can't modify, or save it >to some worthless randomly-named file I can't keep track of. Funnily enough, good external editor implementations give fairly meaningful names, at least to my eyes. >The "View Source" browser lets me do everything I need, without losing >track of the fact that I *am* only looking at a snapshot and make >changes to the wrong document. Usually I can keep that straight in my mind. If not, I'll try to preview one or the other document and realise my mistake. No big problem. >> Point is, though, that it's really unnatural to switch to the editor >> to view source; > >That's what I think. I'm not editing, I'm browsing. Often I am just browsing. When I'm editing, though, I don't want the browser to stand in my way. >If you want to open in an editor, use Mozilla. Select "File -> Edit >Page" and it'll toss you into Composer which is one of the better HTML >editors I've ever used. Sadly, I hate Mozilla, as it's a bloated pile of crap that takes something like three weeks to load. Oh, and I quite like plain text editors for HTML, rather than 'WYSIWYG' abortions. Last time I looked, Composer is one of those. While I'm on the subject of alternative browsers, for the people who suggested iCab, thanks, but I hate a browser that can't handle CSS-based layouts. It makes quite a lot of the pages on the web look like utter crap. Maybe version 3, eh? >Then stick with OS 9. Sadly, I do like Mac OS X for its range of browsers, better iTunes (isn't it sad how this is one of the main reasons I like the OS?) and slightly longer uptimes. Isn't life a bitch sometimes?
From: peter (Peter da Silva) Date: 16:41 on 24 Aug 2003 Subject: Re: Mac OS X browser view source > Command option V to view source, command A to select all, command C > to copy, command tab until the editor is frontmost, command shift N > for New Window with Selection (or command N, command V if you have an > inferior editor, perhaps). > > Hmm, which of those is quicker and easier? If you just want to save a copy of the web page and don't care what happens to it after that, Command S. Or (right-click save-as...). What you originally described was copying bits of code into another document, in which case CmdOptV select-copy-paste is just as fast as CmdE select-copy-paste, with the additional bonus of avoiding the "You have unsaved changes" dialog when you eventually close the window and discard the redundant copy. What's best depends on the operation you're performing, and I'm not at all sure I can understand what operation you're doing that makes "open in an editor" the obvious convenient choice. > So just as I hate the browsers mentioned for not giving me an option > to view in external editors, you should hate Opera for not giving you > the option not to. If I hated all software that made some rare operation slightly inconvenient I'd have to spend the rest of my days in an Amish community. > >Why bring up an editor on a document that I can't modify, or save it > >to some worthless randomly-named file I can't keep track of. > Funnily enough, good external editor implementations give fairly > meaningful names, at least to my eyes. And they pick the right folder all the time? > >The "View Source" browser lets me do everything I need, without losing > >track of the fact that I *am* only looking at a snapshot and make > >changes to the wrong document. > Usually I can keep that straight in my mind. If not, I'll try to > preview one or the other document and realise my mistake. No big > problem. I envy you, that you've never inadvertantly edited the wrong version of a file. > >If you want to open in an editor, use Mozilla. Select "File -> Edit > >Page" and it'll toss you into Composer which is one of the better HTML > >editors I've ever used. > Sadly, I hate Mozilla, as it's a bloated pile of crap that takes > something like three weeks to load. It's a Mac, how often do you load a program? > Oh, and I quite like plain text > editors for HTML, rather than 'WYSIWYG' abortions. Last time I > looked, Composer is one of those. Composer provides four presentations of the document: a typical WYSIWYG editor, a tags-visible editor similar to the old Word Perfect tag view, a plaintext editor, and a preview.
From: Richard Clamp Date: 11:41 on 25 Aug 2003 Subject: Re: Mac OS X browser view source On Sun, Aug 24, 2003 at 10:41:58AM -0500, Peter da Silva wrote: > If I hated all software that made some rare operation slightly inconvenient > I'd have to spend the rest of my days in an Amish community. Or you'd be sending lots of seed rants to this list. You might even be using the address you're subscribed from. Both of these would be good things. Now please stop discussing/defending software, that's not what this forum is for.
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